Describing tankies as further left than other leftists speaks to a poor definition or understanding of the left-right spectrum. There’s no way that apologia for brutal authoritarian dictatorships should be considered a left-wing idea.
this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
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That’s not what the article does if you read it though, although I understand why the title would make you think that.
The article defines tankies as a subgroup of extreme leftists, others which include anarchists (like me) and non-pro Stalin/Xi communists
But I did read it lol
In Fig. 2, we present a layout of ideological subreddits, capturing the distinct positioning of tankies within the broader ideological spectrum. Their positioning, further to the left than subreddits like r/communism, r/socialism, and r/Anarchism, underscores their unique placement on the periphery of the far-left cluster, emphasising their extreme nature.
oh wait I get what you’re saying now. Positioning as further left is probably not the best way to put it. It would be more accurate to say further from the mainstream opinion. I wonder if this is just the editorialisation of the piece I sent or language used in the actual paper they are summarising.
but the article is pretty clear that “tankies” aren’t the only “left wing extremists”
offering a comprehensive examination of a left-wing extremist community on Reddit known as ‘tankies’.
Well I certainly agree that left-wing extremism is a thing, including among a variety of leftist ideologies.
My issue is that I don’t think tankies should be considered leftists at all. They are admittedly hard to place on the spectrum because their ideas grew out of leftism, meaning many of their ideals, language, and issues of focus are shared with the left. So to a casual observer they may appear to be leftists. But once these ideas have been completely twisted and transformed to defend and strengthen existing oppressive social structures, they share a lot more in practice with the political right than the left. A wolf is still a wolf even if it wears a sheep hide. And trading a king for a chairman doesn’t make you left-wing if the chairman has most of the same powers and no structures for ordinary people to wield collective power.
Left and right have always been about human freedom and autonomy opposed to the oppression of monarchy and similar institutions, but people have become confused because parties tend to shift to the right the more power they gain. Today people seem to view left and right more as competing sports teams than the broad ideological schools of thought they are. Tankies do not fit with leftist thought and should not be considered any form of leftist, regardless of how extreme they may be.
I definitely agree with that. But I think to non-leftists it’ll be hard to get them to agree.
The phrasing in the quoted bit seems more like they're simply comparing they're left-leaning extremism to other, supposedly extreme leftist subreddits based on the kind of discussions and topics within the subs and not the ideologies themselves.
They specifically phrased it as further left of the left, which in this context "left" clearly just means "an actual socialist who doesn't want billionaires to exist."
On that note I'd absolutely disagree that tankies are further left than a real socialist. One of the many reasons a single axis is meaningless for in depth political discussion.
It's a perfect understanding of the bullshit meaningless names.
What do you mean?
There’s no way that apologia for brutal authoritarian dictatorships should be considered a left-wing idea.
Robespierre has entered the chat.
Facing restrictions on Reddit, tankie subreddits, r/GenZedong and r/GenZhou, transitioned to Lemmygrad.ml, a Marxist/Leninist online platform. Tankies’ move not only made them dominant voices on Lemmygrad.ml but also seemed to amplify the overall toxic tone on the platform.
Yeah, this right here is why Lemmy will never take off, this place is toxic as hell thanks to the tankies.
It's problematic for Lemmy that the .ml instance gives the impression of a flagship instance since it's run by the devs. It gives the fediverse as a whole a bad look to outsiders. I speak from experience because it was one of the three recommended to me before I left Reddit.
if only there was a way for admins of an instance to block federation with certain instances, we could call it "unconnecting"
Like it or not, the average person still sees Lemmy as a mostly homogenous platform. If they see “lemmy is full of tankies”, it’s not a good look. They don’t know how defederation works.
Gab and Truth.social are forks of Mastodon, but I don't see "Mastodon is full of alt-right garbage people" as an argument against using it anywhere. probably because they're unconnected from everyone else.
they are forks, lemmygrad, hexbear are integrated with many major lemmy instances
Yeah, its not just the Tankies that make Lemmy so toxic. Unfortunately.
Great, now we have research on “tankies”. A word I didn’t even know until somewhat recently and have personally come to despise, as I have often seen it abused on Lemmy, along with “Russian shill”, “russobot”, “sinobot” and what have you, in attempts to discredit anyone who might say anything that is not constant political condemnation of China or Russia and respectively support for US/EU/NATO expansion. Its abuse in many ways resembles the abuse of the “antisemite” label to silence criticism of Israel, or indeed the overuse of the “fascist” label in (ultimately failed) attempts to silence the (new) right, and many other labels that unfortunately liberals among others are keen to throw around generously. It matters little what side of a debate you stand on, if you have to resort to so much name-calling to make your case. Other than that, research is fine. With the caveat that political research is, well, often political and thus not particularly immune to political bias.