this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2024
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MeanwhileOnGrad

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Hexbear's admin twisting reality (and we haven't defederated them yet πŸ˜‹) (jlai.lu)
submitted 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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The original french post that motivated hexbear's decision : https://jlai.lu/post/11504685

There is already various posts here giving us reasons to defederate them, one of them calling to violence against french :

https://jlai.lu/post/11622072?scrollToComments=true

On jlai.lu :

Dessalines, one of Lemmy main developper is taking part :

Some of hexbear supporter denying being part of an attack without any apologies :

Should we support Lemmy or migrate to another software as Mbin, piefed, sublinks ? Time will tell.

Mbin

Piefed

Sublinks

top 49 comments
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[–] [email protected] 55 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

"reactionay" = going against their tankie ideology.
Eventually, it's a good thing they decide to delist the instance (while jlailu is discussing it too), it will reduce useless conflicts.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

I love it when they say reactionary. It's the ultimate projection. Like reactionaries are exactly what they are, urging to return to Soviet-era communism.

their only idols are long-dead dictators or people who want to return to how things previously were. Like Winnie the Pooh wanting Taiwan to return to China

Reactionaries full and through

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah I came to comment that 'reactionary' as a reason. Their instance has a lot of reactionary content, not to make a blanket statement of all. Sounds like a pot calling kettle.

[–] RunawayFixer 45 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

As Hexbear becomes increasingly isolated, more and more of their users will start making accounts on other instances. After migrating, they'll still have their toxic post truth discource, but they'll be harder to identify at a glance. I'm definitely not against cutting ties with Hexbear, I was in favor of it when Lemmy world did it. But now I'm dreading the thought of those users trickling back into my feed one by one. For my personal Lemmy experience, the existence of Hexbear was great in that it kept so many toxic people contained in a place away from me.

[–] PugJesus 38 points 4 weeks ago

Deplatforming works. Some Hexbear users might trickle away, but the inconvenience of needing two accounts discourages most of the casual dogpile trolls.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I highly doubt there's much more migration than before. Hexbear existed as a standalone site with no federation for years before the reddit apiocalypse caused the mass migration to Lemmy.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

They spawned from CTH on Reddit getting banned into dirt years ago. That's actually a good chunk of how Lemmy came to be in the first place iirc. Hexbear has been on Lemmy for years, but only because they socially-squeezed themselves off of reddit with their classic "style".

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

They truly are redditors

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago

It goes beyond that, when people use Redditor as a slam, these are the people that are being invoked.

These are the cretins that are universally-laughable.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Sure, but my whole point was that you can't exactly expect defederation to impact their culture in any meaningful way considering being completely defederated was the status quo.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

If they join another instance, they will not benefit from as much local support, the social pressure will eventually discourage them, and they will probably just go back to using only their local bubble.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 weeks ago

Their time in isolation from when reddit banned chapo did them no favors. When it was banned it was a flavor of radicalism that was tolerable.

They've devolved into something much worse, in the style of the red guard in China killing avowed communists for not being communist enough, and thinking it's a good thing. They're just screaming into the void making all leftists look unreasonable and bad, and wondering why no one can stand them.

I've yet to have an interaction with someone from hexbear post reddit exodus where I thought to myself, "you know I bet they're pretty chill in real life."

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 weeks ago

They already do that. They do it a lot on Reddit.

I know some of them who have like five reddit alts they cycle through in a single week. Truly bizarre

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

If they keep their attitude they'll be kicked off most instances, generally they won't be able to circlejerk so after a while I'd expect them to self-isolate again.

[–] RunawayFixer 6 points 3 weeks ago

You're probably right. Case in point: Linkerbaan was eventually banned, although it did take a long time.

The opinions on this were interesting. My simplified take: One person thinks it's even worse than I thought. One person thinks it's not going to be a problem in the first place. And 3 persons think that it's a problem that will resolve itself, so no reason to worry.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 weeks ago

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

Fantastic post! thank you!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Eh, it's open source, which intrinsically limits the power the devs have over the software.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

It's open source, yeah, but is there much of a future in it? Lemmy as a whole doesn't make a whole lot of original content.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

This is not a software issue. We would be facing the same problem on Piefed or Mbin

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

True and i wrote this post, so i also play a part in this. I'm pondering. We could fork it and separate politic and software. We can also choose our server wich is awesome and thank to Lemmy's dev.

Currently, i'm hesitating because Dessalines is the admin of Lemmy.ml, even tough it's not the biggest instance i consider it as the flagship instance of lemmy.

We did the same debate long ago on Reddit and Lemmy.world. I'm switching my opinion because of Dessalines's participation. I'm less neutral about it.

Another reason, i think those software, even if piefed and sublinks are still beta, are better than Lemmy.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Another reason, i think those software, even if piefed and sublinks are still beta, are better than Lemmy.

Regarding apps support alone Lemmy is miles ahead the others

Edit: mobile apps

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I think there are Pros and Cons.They benefit from an huge community, there is lot help on their Matrix channel and we are available.

I think Mbin has a strong support too. Other, aren't ready for production (i haven't tried to install one yet) but the way they present their project is crystal clear.

Does Piefed also offer a good support if i take a glance on their communitie ?

And the fact Piefed is working since the beggining on a moderation board show they understand well what is at stake on the web.

We still can't add moderator correctly and an admin can delete communities easily without warning.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I meant mobile apps

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 weeks ago

Sorry, i completly misunderstood and answered off the mark. 😰

Yeah lemmy has the best app support. ☺️

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

It depends on where you look. For instance, this is new content.

Also the Star Trek community here is wild.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 weeks ago

It's a link aggregator, so generating original content is not really its purpose.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

definitely see Lemmy dying off with how shitty the devs are

We had a similar conversation yesterday already, but I don't get the hate towards them as devs. As instance admins, probably, but as devs, what better alternative do we have?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Dessalines is just so cringe I find myself unable to separate the art from the person. And Nutonic is just a transphobe.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago

I hope you enjoy Piefed!

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (3 children)

What do they expect an admin to do with their user? It's not our job to treat them like a school children.

Also what's the progress of sublink? Didn't heard from it for a while.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 weeks ago

I updated my post so you can check their progress :)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

What do they expect an admin to do with their user? It’s not our job to treat them like a school children.

If not, then how come an admin can ban a user?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Because they breaching the common rule? Or being a spam account? Being reactionary is usually not a ban-able offence, and we admin isn't here to control and fine tune how everyone act to a specific way.

I mean, if you or any other admin want to do that, feel free, but i ain't got time for that, and i trust you adult for solving common conflict yourself.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

They called to violence and insulted our members several times in the first thread linked in the OP https://jlai.lu/post/11504685

If Jlailu members had done the same on another instance's meta community we would have acted on it.

I see where you come from, we don't monitor everything that our members do, but this was a large scale event with dozens of people taking part and 248 comments.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Then yes, it fall under the rule as brigading. I definitely would ban anyone calling for it.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 weeks ago

Glad to see we agree

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Altought it is due to a lack of people, i think it also point out the lack of a moderation board with various role to fill.

Several role are missing so our job tend to overlap.

We could do something like this :

  • sysop : server
  • admin : oversee all communities and subcription
  • modo : oversee one or several communities
  • mediation team : manage communities well-being
  • animators : create post, event...

In our case, our (modo)admins would delete these as they oversee the whole server.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Unfortunately it looks like SubLinks is mostly dead. They haven’t made any changes to the code since August

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 weeks ago

I definitely wouldn't hold my breath. Piefed is much more promising

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

And yet when you point out that the main devs of lemmy are also mods on those instances, some people don't see a problem..

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

How is the mobile app support on Mbin?

People are aware, but Lemmy is still the most feature rich software at the moment

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

I'm not a fan of defederation in general, because I think, communication can break down barriers, and we need to confront differences and not build further fronts - as this would only help fascist regimes like Russia.

But some people seem to only want to troll or keep hanging on some ideology without regard for reality...

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

Two Fascists walk into the bar...

How many communists are in Russia?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Do any of these alternatives have an ios app, because as soon as they do, I’m switching.

I can’t support an app developed by pro-russians.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

Not at the moment unfortunately. Hopefully that will come soon, especially for Piefed.

[–] barsquid 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

How is repeating that "il y a 23 heures" supposed to be insulting? Are they trying to say the post should have been taken down by now?

There are plenty of comments on Hexbear and .ml from some of the very users in the screenshots that should have been taken down yet remain up to this day. They should go back and comment that on their own works of hatred.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

They are not repeating "il y a 23 heure".

Those are the public upvote that you can see on Mbin under "favorite" tab. "Il y a 23 heure/11 pm ago" represent the time elapsed since their upvote.

Example here : https://kbin.earth/m/[email protected]/t/633634/It-is-a-good-day-for-naps/favourites

[–] barsquid 6 points 3 weeks ago

Thank you, that makes so much more sense.