Check out Framework if you haven't already! https://frame.work/linux
They're designed to be upgraded and repaired over time so they're super modular. You can also save some money if you're not afraid to put it together yourself.
this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
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How's the Camera working on these? On most recent laptops it seems not to be just a camera sensor like in the good ol' days, but a full blown i2c module, which does a lot of processing before delivering the images, and with rather obscure code that people is really struggling to build drivers for.
Works fine on Linux for me, you sure you mean i2c? I think you mean v4l2 or something, i2c max bitrate is like 500kbit/s. I can check but I'm pretty sure it's usb or something similar, it works on Google hangouts on Chrome at least, I use my fw for work.
While I support the framework laptop, OP did also say under a thousand dollars. You cannot really get a framework laptop for that price.
Edit: Thousand, not hundred
You can get a diy base framework 13 with either intel or amd for $849 w/o ram and the ssd, and just purchase those part separately for just about $1000 total.
And if you're replacing one, you could possibly pull the ram and SSD from it to use in the frame work.
The SSD will need to be an M.2 form factor, and the ram will need to be SODIMM DDR5; both of which are relatively new form factors in the grand scheme of things. The ssd from a former laptop will probably fit, but SODIMM DDR5 is maybe two years old at this point. The older intel models that still use DDR4 are out of stock at this point on the framework website.
True. But framework is an investment in a sustainable future since the mobo is upgradeable.
Mine in in the mail. Got the shipping notification last night. So excited! I didn't the past year saving up for it. I'm glad to see that everything works out of the box with Fedora.
Lenovo is renowned for their excellent linux compatibility. I'm sure you'll get a bunch of proponents here saying the same.
BUT, oh boy. Don't get me started...
Too late. Having used various models of thinkpads in recent years, their inconsistent keyboard layouts will drive you absolutely insane. I swear, at this point they're just fucking with us.
I've got one in pieces somewhere, that has/had the ~ key next to the FN key on the bottom row! How the fuck are you supposed to use Linux if you're ~ key is down there? It's fucking stupid.
Not to mention their keys have a tendency to break off with just the mildest of fist slams.
AND the latest work-issued recent model is fucking with us again! It has the FN key ON THE LEFT SIDE of the Ctrl key on the left. Who does that? The Ctrl is always the left-most bottom key. Now, every time I fucking go to press Ctrl+something, I end up hitting FN instead.
Fucking morons! At this rate this laptop will also end up in pieces.
So, tldr; Stay the fuck away from Lenovo if you want to use Linux and not end up in prison for vehicular homicide.
The Fn and Carl keys can be switched in software. I have a work-issued Lenovo with a similar layout. They can be soft-swapped in the BIOS. There’s also a desktop utility to do the same but I don’t know if they have a Linux version of it. I totally agree, the physical layout is annoying but it has a simple fix.
Hahaha, I’m the opposite I’ve been so used to the thinkpad fn that I hate using other laptop keyboards.
I've had to borrow computers with fn and ctrl swapped. I understand shat you mean
Oh :( As annoying as that is I can't bring myself to completely take it off the board. Thanks for the warning, though! Nobody's mentioned that so far :)
It's not like other keyboards are better, I know why they are pissed and while it is annoying, Thinkpads X, T and P series are great linix machines.
What I don't like is soldered RAM. I got T490 after almost a decade of using X220, because it, at least, had one ram slot. Now I am rocking 48GB of ram in reliable hardware which os completely supported in linux (except bt having some issues, but still).
What issues are you having with BT? I recently bought a second hand T490 and Fedora with KDE has been great! I have not extensively used BT, but I always use a BT keyboard and it has been fine :)
Microphone on my headphones is not working, it is connecting but codec is off. It us not working with second parmir different manufacturer.
I got bt usb dongle and both work with it.
I don't know if the problem is in kernel driver or bt deamon...
I have X1 Carbon Gen 6 and I love the laptop overall, I've been using it for 4 years so far. I don't mind having fn and ctrl swapped, but my keyboard has also a stupid placement of PrntScr. It's on the bottom row, right to the space bar. I can't count times when I accidentally opened spectacle 50 times, because I hold the wrong key.
I have also happened to have a try with some newer thinkpads and they felt like the company made them worse on purpose. The material felt cheap, keyboard choppy and the trackpad absolutely abysmal with its lack of precision.
With the hardware support under Linux... yeah, they do work, but when you pick a new model, expect some missing features, worse power management, quicker thermal throttling etc. For me it significantly improved over time. With 10yo refurbished thinkpads Linux is great though, they say
Funny, I seriously considered getting one over the past year, but the past couple of months I've been reading all kinds of complaints about them. Seems there is a problem with consistent quality.
Used Thinkpad from eBay is your best bet to start imo.
No question, excellent compatibility, will last you a while, you can get a nicer one once you get comfortable.
Spent $500 on this one to hold you over till you can afford a framework, or spend less, you can still get by with a decent one for $250 or so.
If you can you should try to savve up for a framework laptop
I'm on my second Dell XPS 13 Developer laptop which comes with Ubuntu pre installed. I loved the first one but played too much Minecraft and wore out a couple of keys. I had it long enough that decent replacement keyboards were hard to find so I got a new laptop from the same line. I love the second one even more. My brother, also a Linux-using software professional, made the initial recommendation, so there is at least one other person who liked this line.
Love my XPS 13, runs fedora with no issues. Such a solid laptop. Also love my 4K screen
I had an XPS 13 non developer for about 5 years. Ran any distro I threw at it. Upgraded to a frameworks last year though and not looking back. It's all about that 3:2 display for me. The main thing I miss on the XPS is that it sipped power while suspended. I could leave it with the lid closed for a week unplugged and it would still be at 50% The framework 12th Gen is not so forgiving. If it sits in my bag all weekend it will be dead come Monday.
Ooo, nice! Although I don't really want to use Ubuntu myself (nothing wrong with the distro itself, I've just tried others I like), the knowledge it's Linux compatible is amazing!
I have two generations of XPS 15 running Linux without issue. You may need to disable secure boot depending on what distro you install, but beyond that everything works great 👍
If your on a budget, an older Thinkpad is a good choice. I picked up a X220 with a charger and spare battery off of Craiglist a year ago for $60.
Ended up going with Coreboot with a SeaBIOS payload and Debian OS.
The x220 is quite easily the best laptop ever made imo, and I'll never understand why they just don't slap modern hardware into it and re-release it.
I have enough money to buy a more modern Lenovo laptop, but I'm definitely considering getting one renewed simply because of how cheap it is. I'd prefer newer age specs tho. Thank you!
If you're in Europe, I can recommend Tuxedo Computers. They specialise in making Linux based computers, and are highly configurable.
I know you mentioned System76, but I thought an anecdote of the gazelle 15 I bought during covid would help.
It's the 2021 model with a 10th-gen i5, 16GB DDR4 RAM, a cheap 256 nvme SSD, and a GTX 1660ti for $1300. Very good laptop that I've used the hell out of since then. Has an excellent 120hz IPS panel (1080p) that's just buttery smooth, and using pop_os on it has been very stable, even with all their firmware updates including the switch to coreboot for their UEFI. Plays all the games I needed to when I was away from home, and the keyboard is one of the best I've typed on, on a laptop.
Now my only issue with it, is the shell, which was not entirely metal as I was led to believe. It's got some pretty cheap plastic for the bottom side that feels like it will crack if dropped even from a short height. I THINK this has been changed in newer models though, as they were using rebranded Clevo laptops for their chassis. Still, I hate that it's half nice brushed aluminum looking metal and half brittle plastic housing a VERY (at the time) expensive parts. It's the only flaw
Does this change my mind on buying System76? No, because I've seen their newer stuff and it's made leaps and bounds from my laptop in just a couple of years, and I absolutely plan on buying a beefier Oryx Pro or something on the future. They're excellent Linux machines
A framework 100%. The lowest end diy should be right around $1000, probably lower if you buy the third party parts yourself. And it'll save you a few hundred bucks when it's time to upgrade. Also keep an eye on the refurbs in the marketplace, they're out of stock rn but that might change.
Buy a used Dell Latitude. They are business laptops that often get put up on eBay, so you can get them for $200-$750 depending on how old you're willing to buy.
System76 is plenty great. Not cheap, though. Thinkpads also have never let me down
Framework all the way!
I've been running Debian 11 and now 12 on an HP EliteBook 840 G5 (i7 8550U) and everything works out flawlessly out of the box. When I say everything I really mean everything, even special keyboard keys for brightness, volume working after install. Battery lasts way longer than under Windows and the computer runs much colder.
Just get whatever. Part of the fun is hacking it to get it working.
The Asus Vivobook is a good deal.
But as an American you might be able to afford the Framework.
I have been using a framework 13 for a year now, happy with it so far.
Any will do, just make sure it has Intel WiFi.
Eh, I run Ubuntu on my newish XPS and it has issues I've never seen with using Linux before. If I knew ahead of time I would've gladly paid a few hundred extra not to have these problems.
Specifically, sometimes the keyboard just stops working (after waking from sleep) and I'll need to restart once or twice to get it working again. Also, 5G wifi loses its shit when I'm at home due to it randomly switching between my main AP and the extender. I only use 2G at home 😔.
Novacustom looks pretty good. Wish it had amd GPU options but other than that the prices are right for the hardware.