this post was submitted on 05 Apr 2024
120 points (95.5% liked)

Asklemmy

43989 readers
1429 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy πŸ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 160 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Billionaires. No one needs this much money and it's not helpful to have this much hoarded.

We get it, you won at capitalism, now actually contribute to the world around you

[–] PineRune 57 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Nobody ~earns~ a billion dollars. It can only be stolen and exploited from other peoples' labor.

[–] testfactor 13 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Out of curiosity, let's say I'm a video game developer and I make games by myself (no team). I have a hit success and sell 300 milion copies worldwide for an average of $20 a piece and am now a billionaire.

Was that money stolen or exploited? If so, how? If not, how does that jive with your stated position?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago (26 children)

You're right that the claim that "being a billionaire requires exploitation" is massively oversimplified. But the situation you've described is essentially winning the lottery. Yeah, you put the time into think of, and execute on an idea, but everything else, from having the time to work on a possible flop, to it being a hit with 300 million people is ultra luck-based. 1000 people could do the exact same thing, and 1 might hit it big. It's gambling.

A more accurate phrasing of the original statement is: the only way to reliably amass billions of dollars in wealth is to exploit a supply/demand gap to the point of unsustainability.

A small business that operates with integrity, prioritizes the wellbeing of their society over their profits, doesn't price gouge, and doesn't discourage healthy competition will never become worth billions. They will always lose to competition that is willing and allowed to forego ethics for profits.

So 100 people could try your strategy of making a game that goes viral, and none of them are going to do it, most probably won't even make a profit. But then 100 people could try the strategy of exploitation, and they're going to reliably turn a profit. We allow a society where exploitation is a good investment.

Regardless of what people think of Peter Thiel he says out loud exactly what is wrong with late-stage capitalism: competition is for losers.

load more comments (26 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

You are talking about Minecraft level success and even that took many years of success and being bought by one of the largest companies in the world to reach that many sells.

[–] testfactor 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I am talking about that level of success, yes. I in fact was using it's numbers and exact case information, lol.

Notch is a billionaire. The original claim was that no one becomes a billionaire without stealing or exploiting the value of the work of the laborers. My question then is, the value of whose labor did Notch steal or exploit to become a billionaire?

Note: He is also an awful person, so setting that aside for the moment. He's not awful in a way that directly relates to the question at hand.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (11 children)

So really he made his money from selling his company, not just from the game sales itself. And I would argue that he more or less got lucky more than he "earned" it, which I think he has said as much in interviews before.

I can't really speak to if he directly exploited labor, but I think we can pretty safely state that Microsoft has in fact done so repeatedly, and so indirectly at least, Notch benefited from that as well.

Now does that make him morally corrupt for taking that offer? Maybe. But I think any one of us would take the same offer if given the chance. But the reality of the situation is that getting rich from this kind of success is very slim, and even then the labor and effort involved is very much disproportionate to what others are earning for much more effort. And if he was taxed at a rate where is was no longer a billionaire, but just a millionaire, then his quality of life very likely won't change too much while many other people would benefit, assuming that tax money is actually going to public services, that is.

load more comments (11 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Carighan 21 points 7 months ago

Yeah we really need an upper limit for wealth. In video games you would eventually cap the score, and billionaires are far in excess of that. Reminds me of that episode of Ducktales where Scrooge celebrates that he has become so rich he no longer has to pay taxes because they cannot be calculated any more.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 7 months ago (3 children)

We would be ~1000 years in the future right now without Abrahamic faiths.

[–] LesserAbe 10 points 7 months ago

I'm an atheist and think we'd be better off if we moved beyond religion. That said, I don't think it's true we'd be so much farther ahead without it.

Looking at early humans I think religion was a competitive advantage, because it organized groups of people who might not otherwise have worked together. It allowed us to move beyond tribal affiliation, to create a common "operating system" for societies and conceive of and pursue multigenerational goals.

I think we can do all that stuff now without religion, but also think we need more explicitly defined structures and institutions to fill the role religion has played.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 60 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Poverty. It’s honestly something I don’t wish upon my worst enemy and the fact I’ve seen so much shit due to it, it’s something I can never get back and now will have to endlessly live with the pain until the day I literally die.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] nivenkos 51 points 7 months ago (2 children)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 46 points 7 months ago

Religions, all of them

[–] [email protected] 45 points 7 months ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 43 points 7 months ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 41 points 7 months ago

Advertising

[–] Floufym 39 points 7 months ago
[–] [email protected] 39 points 7 months ago (25 children)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

Canada supports this message. God I wish that fuck would close his fucking trap.

load more comments (24 replies)
[–] pr0927 33 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Conservatism.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago
[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 months ago
[–] RizzRustbolt 26 points 7 months ago (2 children)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago

Advertising, political parties and religions. All of them.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Pete_topkevinbottom 24 points 7 months ago
[–] reddig33 23 points 7 months ago (1 children)

A couple of strains of mosquito. We don’t need the two or three that bite humans. There are plenty of other strains that the bats and birds can eat.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Asidonhopo 21 points 7 months ago (3 children)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] slazer2au 21 points 7 months ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago

Car-dependent suburban sprawl

[–] Glytch 20 points 7 months ago

Capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago

Cars. Or at least infrastructure systems that's entirely built just for cars.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago

Human ego.

If we were to get rid of that the world would probably be significantly better place.

[–] tty5 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • populism
  • social media
  • using religion for control and power
  • mosquitoes
  • unchecked corporate greed
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] t_berium 17 points 7 months ago

Stocks and everything around them are an expression of the greed and baseness of our species.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago
[–] TheBananaKing 14 points 7 months ago (3 children)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] ohlaph 14 points 7 months ago
[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago
[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Advertising DRM Software Patents

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

ITT: religion and pests

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (9 children)

Humans.

(Yes i am a Misanthrope)

load more comments (9 replies)
load more comments
view more: next β€Ί