this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2024
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Science Memes

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fossil fuels (mander.xyz)
submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] -5 points 7 months ago (4 children)

You have control over whether you eat pork or tofu, don’t you? You have control over whether you buy a new iPhone or a used FairPhone, don’t you? You have control over whether you plan a trip via airplane or via train, don’t you?

[–] NotBillMurray 17 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Shifting the blame to the individual plays precisely into the hands of massive corporations. People buy what is available and cheapest, and without government intervention that's going to be plastic packaging wrapped in more plastic.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Why not both? Companies that peel bananas and wrap them in plastic for sale are garbage companies. And people who buy them are garbage people.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Environmentalists remember that disabled people exist challenge: impossible.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

So you’re telling me that there are people who cannot peel a banana, but who can simultaneously peel the plastic off a container and then eat the banana?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago

Oh, you meant bananas and only bananas? Every other prepared fresh food is fine? 🙄

But yes, there are people who can perform some tasks but not others. Until you have a solution for them that isn’t “just don’t have fresh food lol” or “just hire someone to do it for you lol” then the problem is and remains the plastic, not the person who is buying food.

[–] something_random_tho 11 points 7 months ago

Yes, and I deliberately make choices to reduce my footprint. But it's not enough, people are naturally greedy and think only as far as next quarter's earnings, hence the need for regulation to account for long-term costs to the world.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

a train ticket cross country costs thousands of dollars more than an equivalent class of airplane tickets so no, no I do not have that control

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

NY–LA via Amtrak: $291. Greyhound, a bus company: $139

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

The $300 ticket is for a coach seat for a trip that takes 70-90 hours one way. Hope you don’t like laying down to sleep or showering!

I can only assume you’ve never taken Greyhound if you’re suggesting it for a cross country trip. In addition to having the same problems as trains but worse (try spending 12 hours in a bus stop halfway through your trip because of overbooking!), if you do want to take Greyhound then be sure to sleep on top of anything on your person that you don’t want stolen. Once I had shit stolen from me before I even made it onto the bus!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Can you acknowledgedyou've moved the goalposts from train to bus?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I did provide the price for a train ticket that is significantly cheaper than Match!!’s “thousands of dollars”, didn’t I?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago

No, a bus isn't a train. Is this perhaps a language barrier problem?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago

Well yes, but you've also failed to explain how someone with a limited budget can enjoy all the comforts and conveniences of modern life without making any sacrifices, which makes you wrong.

[–] pennomi 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Well, in the US trains probably aren’t an option. But you’re exactly right. The reason corporations pollute is because we buy their stuff.

[–] Num10ck 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

corporation pollute because the governments let them, and its cheapest. governments let them because they are corrupted by the corporations.

if/when executives can get the death penalty for crimes against earth, they will still find a way to supply stuff to market.

[–] pennomi 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

For sure, they optimize for profits, and that means being irresponsible with the world.

Let’s take meat for example. It’s not like a ranch is going to raise and slaughter millions of cattle just for the lulz. If nobody is buying it, there’s no economic incentive and the problem goes away.

Consumers are unwilling to change to more expensive, ethical products. It follows that corporations are unwilling to produce them. Until something like lab meat becomes cheaper and easier than natural meat, this will persist. This could be done through taxes on natural meat, (maybe a methane emissions tax).

But consumers fundamentally hold all the power here. They could simply switch to eating less meat and the producers would automatically correct themselves. You just can’t convince people to do it.

[–] Num10ck 1 points 7 months ago

i agree with you, except scale. individual consumers have no power. if consumers/citizens were collectively organized at a substantial percentage, they could change everything. thats why the corporatioms and rich and govt will do anything to not let the people be united like this. and even if they could organize on that scale, it could just be corrupted or turn authoritarian/fascist itself.

1 person trying to change the world by eating less meat doesn't even blip the radar.

[–] AlternatePersonMan 2 points 7 months ago

The argument is that corporations do what they want, often not because we want to buy their stuff, but because:

  • we don't have a choice
  • they hide what they're doing through propaganda, lies, obfuscation, etc. so we don't know about it
  • powerful lobbying

Here's some examples:

  • Cigarette companies spent decades convincing people their product was harmless and Even good for you. The oil industry has been covering up climate change the same way.
  • Trains are rarely an option in the US, because of subsidies to planes, roads, etc. Car companies pushed hard to actually remove public transportation.
  • Don't like your ISP? Too bad, you probably don't have another choice
  • Look at the PG&E story and how they contaminated drinking water, then just lied about it while people died. You don't really have a choice about who supplies electricity to your city.

Yes, you could choose to live off of the grid and walk everywhere and grow your own crops, but that's hardly a choice. And it doesn't have to be that way. Shitty people at the top of these companies make ungodly money by screwing everyone else over anyway they can, regardless of the cost to humanity. That is the point.