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Not arming the Israeli's and letting Iran try to start a war it cannot win, which would result in a domino effect of failed middle eastern states, tens of millions of deaths, and tens of millions of war refugees.
Oh but by all means burn the fucking planet down and destroy democracy for 350,000,000 Americans because you want everyone to know how super sad you are over 25,000 avoidable deaths.
The fuck? So just let Israel kill civilians. Cool. I was wrong. You're not a psychopath. You're someone who would have gone along with the Nazis.
Lol it's really funny this imaginary scenario in that person's head... Thinking that Israel killing tens of thousands today will somehow prevent future deaths that are impossible for us to predict. If I didn't know any better, I'd call that IDF bootlicking.
No you are incorrect. The Nazis didn't warn anyone before doing actual carpet bombing of civilians.
Israel warns people before it bombs. Look it up.
And then they bombed the safe areas. Look it up. You're wrong about this. The ICJ has agreed to continue the case. They are clearly convinced that there is a plausibility that Israel has committed genocide. Do you think you're smarter than the 17 judges sitting on the ICJ for this case?
I will read it and see where my prediction of how the case would be disposed of on the pleadings was flawed.
In light of the high casualties, a preliminary injunction probably makes sense. I bet Israel is already in compliance with it. I'll comment again after I read it this weekend.
"I'll bet Israel is already in compliance with it." They aren't. Which is why the court needed to issue preliminary orders at all.
The order, aside from jurisdiction and standing, makes two significant findings: that the humanitarian condition may likely deteriorate before there is a finding on the merits, leading to irreparable harm of the rights South Africa seeks to vitiate; and the second is that some of the allegations of proven could plausibly meet the definition of genocide or related crimes. That's Paragraphs 54 and 72. That's good enough for a preliminary injunctive order in any court.
Obviously you disagree but I think Israel is already in compliance with the order. Humanitarian corridors are open. Food is rolling in. Medicine rolling in. Bombings have slowed down. Civilian casualties have dropped off. Whether Israel is in compliance is not a factor in ordering the provisional measures. It only adopted a few of the numerous measures South Africa sought.
One major fact noted is that Israel is investigating and prosecuting its own citizens who have called for "extermination of Palestinians" and the like, for the crime of incitement. The Court commends Israel for doing so.
On the other hand, in Paragraph 82 they call on Hamas to release all hostages unconditionally. Obviously, Hamas will not comply.
Should probably give South Africa's case a read as well. 84 pages of facts that are pretty damning for Israel that were convincing enough for these judges. Maybe your bias presented you from believing the facts before your eyes?
I did. 70 of the pages are circular reasoning and the worst allegations are attributed to "reports."
The only question it raised in my mind is why is South Africa is doing Iran's bidding.
Yeah, like I said. Try it again with the understanding that you're point of view is not one held by experts who reviewed the same material. See if that changes anything.
I am an expert who has reviewed the material and there are many experts who also agree with me.
The countries with experts who agree with you: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Malaysia, Qatar, North Korea, Russia, Brazil, Algeria, and a few others I'm not remembering right now.
Here are the countries with experts who agree with me: USA, UK, the EU, NATO, France, Germany, Australia, Norway, Poland, and Canada.
You are siding with Iran over Canada. Does that change anything for you?
Saw you talking shit in another thread. You ever get around to reading this? Or maybe you're too afraid to realize that you're wrong.
I sure did. I even replied to you about it. What parts jump out at you as significant?
Also, I've gone through my replies and your comments. You may have responded to someone else, but not to me.
Maybe.
The issuing of preliminary orders means that they have deemed the risk of genocide in Gaza at the hands of the Israeli government to be plausible. The judges voted overwhelming in agreement with that ruling. One judge voted for the provisional measures based solely on the question of intent and the quotes by Israeli leaders.
*Edit: typo
That's true, plausible. That's taking the allegations as true, and resolving all reasonable doubt in the applicant's favor, and the allegations in the complaints in my view, while stating a plausible case for genocide, are a bunch of bullshit, half truths, and exaggerations.
Nobody disputes that 25,000 people have been horribly killed. The dispute is why. Israel is going to on in evidence that virtually everyone was warned multiple times to leave, and it's going to put on evidence that for virtual every bombing there was a legit military target.
Let's see if Hamas complies with the order, and let's the hostages go. What do you think they will do?
Well, Hamas is not a state, nor is it a signatory to the genocide charter, so this ruling really doesn't apply to them. However, you're right, they'll probably continue holding the hostages as negotiating chips. To be clear, I condemn Hamas and the Israeli government. However, the 25,000 people killed weren't all Hamas. Israel doesn't even claim they were mostly Hamas. And of course Israel will provide evidence in an attempt to defend themselves, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered showing up.
You might be interested to know that Israel's national security ministry, Itamar Ben-Gvir, tweeted "Hague Schmague" after the ICJ ruling. Does that sound like the sentiment of someone who intends to comply?
Please explain to me, without relying on evidence from Israel, the claims in South Africa's complaints are bullshit. You have made a similar statement before but I don't know what you think is bullshit, half-truths, or exaggerations. They use facts from independent sources or from Israel themselves when they can. They use quotes to show intent (it is rare to see this much evidence of intent). They showed video of soldiers echoing the genocidal rhetoric of the president and the prime minister. So which parts did they misrepresent?
They are already in compliance.
Just read South Africa's complaint. The most sensational claims are attributed to "reports" and fail to to include enough detail to fact to check the claims.
It's a house of cards built on exaggerations and half truths. It also includes none of Israel's side of the story, which includes two undeniable truths: they are warning people before air strikes and they are striking legit targets.
Literally three quarters of South Africa's complaint is going to be simply ignored because Israel is going to be able to show a valid military target.
So you're just accepting what Israel says at face value. I disagree that they can show a "valid military target". They claim that they can show it, but that doesn't mean we have to just accept their claim. Or do you buy the whole "most moral army" propaganda. CNN filmed caught Israeli's shooting Palestinians walking under a white flag. Israel killed three of its own hostages who were walking shirtless, unarmed, with a makeshift white flag, and asking for help in Hebrew. Show the legitimate military targets that justify the destruction of their entire health system. There are no hospitals left in Gaza.
You need to look at some noncorporate news sources. Ask yourself if you're just repeating the words of Mark Regev or Eylon Levy, they people they pay to push propaganda. Do you honestly believe that Israel has done nothing wrong? Can do no wrong? They're dropping 2,000 lb bombs. There is evidence of them using white phosphorus as a weapon. I'm sure you'll just parrot their propaganda without offering any evidence to back it up.
You're stringing a bunch of unrelated things together into a web of conspiratorial nonsense and calling it evidence.
The tunnels are well documented. They spread throughout virtually all of Gaza City and there are huge tunnel networks in Gaza's other two cities as well.
Are the tunnels just corporate media propaganda?
They've done plenty of wrong, and Israel has also prosecuted and continues to prosecute its own people for incitement to genocide and for war crimes, as noted in the ICJ opinion.
Whatever, sis. Keep peddling that Israeli propaganda. Maybe some day they'll pay you for it.
My opinions are my own and are open to being proven wrong. I'm calling it as I see it.
Show me where Israel has bombed civilians with no warning; the date and location, then we can look up what warnings the IDF gave and their stated justification.
Neither you or I can go there and inspect to see if there really is tunnels under the buildings, or see if the people wearing civilian clothing are actually members of Hamas.
On one side you have a group who has never admitted the death of a Hamas soldier, who says every casualty is a civilian casualty and complains about indiscriminate targeting of civilians while at the same time actually indiscriminately targeting civilians. And on the other, the army of a democratic nation that is currently right now prosecuting dozens of its own citizens for exactly the things people are accusing it of doing nothing to prevent. One side is obviously lying.
You can hear the recordings of the warnings and see videos of them and press accounts for yourself, and you can have faith in the coalition of democratic nations who are supporting Israel over the coalition of authoritarian theocratic shitholes that are state sponsors of terrorism which supports Israel. For a full list see paragraph 12 of South Africa's complaint.
You believe North Korea and Iran, but not Canada and Japan. That should raise alarm bells in your mind that maybe you got tricked. It's okay. I've been tricked too. It happens. Denial doesn't help you in any way, though.
If you acknowledge that you can't go there yourself to confirm what's happening, then you're acknowledging that you're accepting the word of someone else. The Israeli government, run by the Likud party and Netanyahu, is a far right government. Do you expect them to just admit that genocide is their plan so that the world will rush in to try to stop them? Leaders in the Likud party have made it clear that under their control, there will be no two state solution. That Palestinians cannot be allowed the right of self determination. Ignore all of the quotes in the South African complaint, look at Netanyahu's recent "from the river to the sea" comments or Tzippi Hotovely's "absolutely not" when asked about the possibility of two states. That mindset is not one that will make Israelies less safe as is it is one that is based in the oppression of Palestinians. As such, Palestinians will continue to rise up against Israel as long as there are Palestinians left to rise up. Israel is now trying to get other countries to accept the Gazan population, because ethnic cleansing is a more palatable war crime. However, it should be noted that Germany tried something similar with its Jewish population, before deciding that if no one would take them, they would need to be removed somehow.
Regardless of whether or not you think this is a genocide, the only route to safety in the region is a ceasefire and a negotiation with the representatives of the Palestinians, which at this time is Hamas. Israel's campaign has only raised support for Hamas in the region, because Israel is acting as an oppressor and Hamas are the only ones standing up to them.
If what Israel is doing is good, then why don't Gazan children have enough food? Or enough medicine? Do you think it is Hamas that are not allowing enough supply trucks through Israeli controlled border crossings? Why did Israel allow babies in incubators to die? Why did they kill people walking under white flags? Why are so many reporters being killed? Oh, well, you probably don't care about them since the only reports that matter are the ones that fit your narrative and anything Israel says.
Wake up buddy. "Western world can do no wrong" is a fucking dream created by colonizers. Which makes it a great fit for Israel, but not so much for reality. Or do you believe that there is something intrinsic in Palestinian DNA that makes them more susceptible to being killed by bombs?
You're not telling me anything I don't already know. You're just oblivious to the overall context and gullible enough to believe everything you hear.
Every report of "bombing civilians in safe zone" that I've seen was a lie. The individuals in the buildings had received warnings before bombs fell.
The only reason this story is unique is because everyone heeded the evacuation; when Hamas spread rumors that the evacuation calls were a hoax, the IDF proved it was real with warning shots. The calls are routine.
You find me a claim of civilians being blown up without a warning where the building and location can be verified, and then you have some credibility to your bogus genocide claims. A warning is sufficient under any legal or moral standard of warfare.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67327079
Okay sis, again. Believe what you want. Believe if you want that its somehow moral for an occupying government to call oppressed civilians to let them know that their homes will be destroyed wether or not they stay in the building. Convince yourself that that's not just further terrorism of an already traumatized population. But we're not getting anywhere here because you're not willing to accept anything. You just make more and more excuses for Israel. I'm done. Good bye.
Someone put instrumentalities of terrorism under their buildings. Probably should have stopped them at some point before October 7. Suicide bombings weren't enough to turn Palestinians against Hamas, why would October 7 or having their homes destroyed?
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/1/28/israeli-forces-kill-two-brothers-along-gaza-evacuation-route?traffic_source=rss
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-22/ty-article/nyt-investigation-israel-used-one-ton-bombs-in-safe-zones-in-south-gaza/0000018c-91f4-d47c-a7fd-dbfcc0bb0000
How about this PBS news hour report: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/as-israels-bombing-hits-declared-safe-zones-palestinians-trapped-in-gaza-find-danger-everywhere] from Oct 19 about them bombing safe zones. And an Al Jazeera report from December: https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/12/9/photos-israel-bombs-gaza-areas-it-called-safe-zones-for-palestinians .
Not to mention confusing the system was confusing. Look at the evacuation map. It is not easy to read as mentioned in this NPR article: https://www.npr.org/2023/12/06/1217548417/israel-hamas-war-gaza-evacuation-map-messages .