THE POLICE PROBLEM
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
view the rest of the comments
Lemmy: Unions are absolutely necessary to protect worker's rights!
So police unions should fight for their members to be on paid leave until the truth is out and the case settled?
Lemmy: Not like that!
It really is a conundrum and I just happened to be thinking about it today. I got no answers. Maybe blacklist them once convicted? Could it be that easy? But why would the unions go for that? Also, I'm pretty sure blackballing worker's is straight up illegal.
I'm very opposed to taking away people's rights, employment, etc., on the strength of a mere accusation. OTOH, I loathe police.
And if you young people think you hate 'em, let me tell some tales of the 80's and 90's. They're so much more professional compared to those days, it's stunning to me.
(Some 14-yo will come along and call me a bootlicker. Get it over with.)
EDIT: There are some great ideas below. The kinda conversation I wished to have. Thanks to those who spoke sanely.
You realize police unions are nothing like other unions, right? Because their employees effectively get carte blanche to kill.
Don't make false equivalences. That does not a good argument make.
So we pull the plug on police unions? On what legal grounds, what precedent? We would almost have to make law enforcement a distinct class of citizen.
And for the record, I believe they are a different class of citizen and I believe they should be held to higher standards. And yes, if I had my druthers, that distinction would be written into law, perhaps even on a federal level.
But how do we legislate that? Also, if we do this thing, it's going to cost a mountain of political capital. "Defund the police" is the dumbest political slogan I've ever heard in life. The idea is rock solid, the soundbite ain't. Now imagine trying to push legislation that pulls the teeth on cops.
Maybe my premise was dumb, but I want to explore solutions. Been pushed around, jailed and had my ass beaten by cops with utter impunity. And I'm a white guy! Imagine how this shit goes for others.
I like the idea of making cops carry insurance. Too many incidents and their premiums go up or they get dropped. This also pushes the costs off of the taxpayers when these incidents happen.
I'm sure there are issues with this approach though
I love the idea, and see it as the most workable way to bring police under some kind of genuine public control.
Probably the only issue with it is that the cops and their unions would be opposed. They'd shout loudly that it'll lead to mayhem in the street, rape and pillage, gang warfare, anarchy, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria, etc.