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ストリーク124: 昨日見た映画について (self.writestreakjp)

submitted 1 year ago by jouzu to c/writestreakjp

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昨日、すずめの戸締まりと言う映画を見た。アニメーション、音楽やストーリー好きで、話し方もすごく易しくて、日本語字幕なしでも、だいたい理解できた。

それと、今日は少しプログラミングして、一つのプログラムを完成したので、嬉しい。それ以上はたくさん日本語の動画を見たり、ポッドキャストを聞いたりした。

また明日

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (6 children)

You and your friend might want to review short forms, this is covered in Genki L8 and confirmed by my former Japanese professor

To use short forms before と言う and と思う you're supposed to use だ before と for nouns and na-adj

[–] jouzu 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

返事がこれ:

ありがとうございます。そう言ってもらえると嬉しいです。

さて、「すずめの戸締まりだと言う映画を見た」は誤りです。この場合は「だ」を入れてはいけません。このサブでも添削で「だ」を消している投稿は結構ありますよ。

では「どんな時に使うのか？」という質問に対しては、う～ん、一般的に答えるのは文法を調べないといけなくて、実は日本人は日本語の文法に弱いんです😭

例文だけあげておきますね。

・彼は、日本映画の最高峰は「すずめの戸締り」だと言っている

・彼が見た映画の名前は「すずめの戸締り」だ

・新海監督の最新作は「すずめの戸締り」だ

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

We can agree to disagree.

NHK's article about だ抜き discusses native speakers' use of だ before と where a clause includes more than one word. In such cases, people tend to add だ.

[○]明日は晴れだと思う。　[?]明日は晴れと思う。
[○]彼の名前は田中だと勘違いした。　[?]彼の名前は田中と勘違いした。
[○]彼が実は無実だと認めてください。　[?]彼が実は無実と認めてください。
[○]私は、彼女は英雄だと見なしている。　[?]私は、彼女は英雄と見なしている。
[○]自分の意見は常に正解だと思い込む。　[?]自分の意見は常に正解と思い込む。

(○: fine, ?: questionable/clumsy/unnatural/highly-colloquial/etc)

In these cases, ones without だ look more or less clumsy to me, because the part before と is essentially a sentence with a verb and a corresponding subject.

(quoted sentence with plain form ending) と (Your verb. i.e. 言う、思う、聞く、etc)

So really what comes before the end of the と particle in this case is the plain form. I think that several examples will help you out.

彼女は綺麗です。(She is pretty)

綺麗 is a な adjective. Using it at the end of a sentence, we get です, or in plain form だ instead of な。

彼女は綺麗だと思います。(I think that she is pretty.)

Taking the first example sentence, and putting it into plain form, we can add と思う。 Without any complications.

あのビルは大きいです。(That building is big.)

大きい is, of course, an い adjective. In the sentence I ended it with です (to be polite), but です in this case is unnecessary. I could say あのビルは大きい and still have it mean the same thing. Plain form with い adjectives actually end with the adjective, which in this case is 大きい。

あのビルは大きいと思います。 (I think that building is big.)

I'll give you a few more examples without commentary, to hopefully solidify the point.

あの人は大学生です。(That person is a college student)
あの人は大学生だと思います。(I think that person is a college student.)
彼は十キロ走っています。(He is running 10 kilometers.)
彼は十キロ走ってると思います。(I think that he is running 10 kilometers.)

Additionally:

A verb clause can be phrased by adding 「と」 to the end of the clause. For clauses that end in an plain noun or na-adjective, we must add 「だ」. A direct quote would use the Japanese version of double-quotes: 「」 but you can also paraphrase.

https://guidetojapanese.org/learn/complete/verb_phrase

[–] jouzu 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Thanks for taking the time to thorouhly look into this.

The case I used in my post seems to be an edge-case. Since I don't yet know what sounds natural in this situation, I guess I'll just have to encounter it more in my immersion.

Since I wasn't aware of this grammar point until now (didn't study grammar on its own much) I appreciate you making me aware of it.

Have a good one :)

PS: obligatory "English is not my native language"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Sure. People will end up using language in written and spoken forms differently. I just wanted to properly address your point when you said you've never heard of this rule, and could not find anything regarding it.

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