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Algerian Imane Khelif wins boxing gold medal after her gender was wrongly questioned
(www.nbcnews.com)
this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2024
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Women do not have to prove that they're women. The IBA didn't even say what test they gave her who administered it and who analyzed it. All they said was it wasn't for testosterone.
Is that true? I've never thought about how it works for Olympics. But it's completely self reported? If that's true it does seem open to abuse.
She was born a girl. Do you really think Algeria, of all places, would be okay with a “male” athlete competing as a woman?
I don't know anything about that, but that's not what I was asking
That is all the IOC requires. Why should they require anything else?
It’s quite common to test for testosterone. For one because synthetic testosterone is on the doping list. That’s also why the IBA test is so suspicious. If her testosterone was at male levels, that should have been discovered way earlier with a doping test.
Again, the fake Russian test failed her for an unknown test but said the test WASN'T about testosterone. The gender thing has nothing to do with Russia.
Yep. They won't say what the test was, they won't say who administered it and they won't say what the results were.
I said to someone else who was arguing that it must have been a legitimate test, "what if the test was an official walking into a room with her, saying, 'I know a man when I see one,' and walking out?" Because that could absolutely have been the test. We have zero clue apart from it not being a testosterone test.
It's weird how people are filling in details into the Russian test. Russia was just salty their undefeated girl lost.
It's clear as mud when I look at ioc website. I am not sure you or prior poster are correct though. It appears there are suppossed to be some regulations about who can participate in the women's category and that it may vary between sports. The new guidelines seem very nontransparant. If completely unregulated there is the opportunity for abuse. Your question of why is akin to asking why not simply allow athletes to self report if they are doping or not and simply allow them to participate without testing as long as they say they aren't.
Okay, so how would you define 'woman' so that it is universal enough to fit all types of women even if you don't include people who have 'boy' on their birth certificate?
Because there is no evidence Khelif is anything but a woman with a lot of strength and physical advantages as a boxer. Are we going to test Brittney Griner to see if she's a woman too?
I'm not on the ioc bro. I'm curious from someone that understands the policy to learn more about it as these are interesting topics. You clearly aren't the person to talk to though. I'm not interested in opinions.
Too bad opinion is all you're going to get for who qualifies as a woman to box other women since there's not one single organization and also no hard biological definition for what counts as "woman." But the IOC goes by what is on your birth certificate and passport. You may not like that they do that, but that doesn't really change what I said initially about what they say qualifies.
Why don't you think that I like that? What is your source for that being the only criteria that is used and why are you ignoring the fact that they do say the criteria varies by event. You can have your opinions, but please don't try to superimposr any onto me.
Again, it's not my opinion, it's the IOC's.
This isn't a complicated case. She was born a female with female genitalia and has a passport issued as female and self reports as female. She is not transgender. What else is needed but to test for doping? Half of all women have higher than average testosterone levels, that is how averages work. Many top athletes are anomalies of some sort.
The IOC did create a framework for transgender athletes but that doesn't apply to her. The fascists are just trying to smear her and paint her as a cheater and "other" like fascists do.
I agree with your point and with what you said, but I want to clarify something:
That's not how averages work. That's how median works. For example:
-Person A: 4 units testosterone
-Person B: 4 units testosterone
-Person C: 7 units testosterone
Mean: (4+4+7)/3= 5 units
Median: 4 units
So 2 people would be under the average because one person shoots the average up.
The word average is often used to mean mean, however it can be used less specifically - median is a type of average as well.
From Merriam-Webster definition of average:
1a) a single value (such as a mean, mode, or median) that summarizes or represents the general significance of a set of unequal values
Also, things like testosterone levels in a population usually follow a normal distribution, where both mean and median are the same, so the distinction is often meaningless for practical purposes
Still, that's not how the mean or the mode work. And one could argue a group of Olympic athletes is not a big enough population to assume a normal distribution. But yeah, you're also right.
True of course haha. But among top athletes I'd expect the vast majority to be above (or below) average outliers in various metrics.
To add, the allegation was made by the International Boxing Association which is apparently controlled by the Russian plutocrats and gangsters.
It's really a good example that it takes more energy to refute false allegations than to make them.
I don't think there's anyone out there who doesn't know how averages and medians work, but thanks for telling us. I believe the person you're replying to was just being sloppy with terminology, as is very common. Their point still stands.
I'll say I didn't know "average" could also mean median and mode as another comment pointed, maybe I wouldn't have commented then.
It's common to be confused over statistics, as they aren't very intuitive, so I just wanted to clarify for whoever needs it.
Wow, where do you work? Where do you live? Have you not have a conversation with a member of the general public? There are people who can barely read. Not understanding statistics and averages is pretty common, and doing a quick summary to make sure everyone is on the same page is pretty good communication.