this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2023
58 points (98.3% liked)

Australia

3622 readers
419 users here now

A place to discuss Australia and important Australian issues.

Before you post:

If you're posting anything related to:

If you're posting Australian News (not opinion or discussion pieces) post it to Australian News

Rules

This community is run under the rules of aussie.zone. In addition to those rules:

Banner Photo

Congratulations to @[email protected] who had the most upvoted submission to our banner photo competition

Recommended and Related Communities

Be sure to check out and subscribe to our related communities on aussie.zone:

Plus other communities for sport and major cities.

https://aussie.zone/communities

Moderation

Since Kbin doesn't show Lemmy Moderators, I'll list them here. Also note that Kbin does not distinguish moderator comments.

Additionally, we have our instance admins: @[email protected] and @[email protected]

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Energy companies be like:

  • We need to ensure we price to stay in business, the profit margin is so thin
  • We are going to see a record profit, shareholders!

These companies are criminals and should be in prison for crimes against humanity

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I recall Australian power prices already being insane years ago.

[–] abhibeckert 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I assume you're not in Australia?

Electricity has historically been very cheap in Australia. Even now a lot of people people are paying as little as 15 cents (in USD) per kWh. That's far less than other first world countries - a lot of them pay more like 40 cents.

We also have a climate where people generally don't use much power overnight and where solar panels are especially effective during the day (the angle of the sun is great for solar here) so if your daytime power needs are high you can simply install panels on the roof.

A lot of people in Australia don't pay for electricity at all - cover your roof in solar panels and you'll earn (a tiny bit) of money supplying energy to the grid. You won't become a millionaire doing that, but you will make enough money to cover the cost of installing the panels relatively quickly.

Yes, prices have gone up unacceptably, and it's hard for people to adjust, but they're still relatively low compared to, say, western Europe. We've got coal power stations shutting down because they're too expensive to run at current electricity prices... and we don't even need to import coal. We've got local coal mines which are struggling to find anyone willing to buy their coal so prices are low for that too.

Energy companies are claiming the transition away from coal and disruptions in the gas supply with Russia's war have caused supply chain complexities which have forced them to raise prices. I think they're full of shit, and it looks like the ACCC has found the same thing.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Your overall point isn't incorrect but:

so if your daytime power needs are high you can simply install panels on the roof.

A renter certainly isn't able to do this, given there is no incentive for landlords to install them.

[–] abhibeckert 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

there is no incentive for landlords to install them

According to the QLD government, it is acceptable for landlords to raise the rent by, for example, $15 per week after installing a 5kW solar system.

The math for that works out to about $1000 per year in reduced electricity bills for the tenant and $750 per year in extra rental income for the landlord. $750 per year will make the landlord a profit (after upfront costs are paid back) of several thousand dollars by the time the warranty on the solar panel runs out. (*)

I assume it's similar in other states.

So, yes, there is an incentive. If I was a landlord I'd totally install panels. And if I was a renter, anywhere with panels would be at the top of my list. It's an absolute no-brainer and I could simply place the upfront cost on my mortgage.

It's a better deal for the landlord than the tenant, but it's still a good deal for the tenant. And the tenant doesn't have to pay anything upfront and they can feel better about leaving the aircon running all day in summer... with solar your daytime electricity is "cost" is basically the solar feed in tariff, which is just 6c per kWh.

(* Obviously those are rough figures, install costs depend on the house, and electricity savings depends on the angle of the roof, prevailing weather, time of day for electricity use, etc... but those numbers are based on reliable government funded research so it would be in the ballpark)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

That relies on landlords being rational and willing to wait for the income to pay for the panels, which hasn't been my experience interacting with them but hopefully some have the sense. And in this environment, they don't really need any incentive to raise rent, they just do it. Going elsewhere also often isn't an option given the low supply at the moment.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Not to mention the fact that, uh, I've literally lived in rentals where the landlord damned well knew the roof would not structurally support panels due to their poor maintenance

[–] abhibeckert 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah, housing is messed up in Australia right now. I don't think it's fair to blame landlords though. This is primarily a supply problem.

There were state level legislative changes (in every state, but not all at the same time) around the year 2,000 which resulted in a significant drop in construction. It's estimated we now have 1.3 million fewer houses than we would have if the legislation hadn't changed.

Most of the changes were an attempt to encourage apartment construction and discourage house construction... but what actually happened is they discouraged house construction without any real change on the apartment side.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Not from australia, but I remember EEVBlog talking about his power rates and it was really shocking how high they got, which justified the solar panels easily.

("I heard it on youtube" might be the "but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night", mind you :P )